Norman Brannon of Texas Is The Reason, New End Original, Shelter, and more (and currently touring guitarist for Thursday) recently relanched his legendary ’90s hardcore fanzine Anti-Matter as a Substack, and we invited him on the BrooklynVegan podcast to talk more about the relaunch, and why it made sense to bring it back today. The conversation took all kinds of interesting twists and turns, and I think if you’re into any type of hardcore then and/or now, it’s very worth listening to what Norman had to say. Listen on Spotify, Apple, Google, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Here are some excerpts:
On bringing Anti-Matter back in 2023
As far as 2023 goes, we’re in a very similar place [to where hardcore was in 1993]. First of all, [hardcore] is bigger than it’s ever been, which is amazing. Second of all, it’s just starting to really show now, again, this diversity of styles. We’re even seeing a lot of the bands of the last few years that blew up in hardcore already sort of moving into their post-hardcore eras. And we’re gonna be dealing with a lot of these same issues again. The hardcore purists are gonna be like, “What the fuck?! You sound like The Breeders now” [laughs]. And we’re gonna have to start talking about these things again. We’re talking about multiple generations at shows that are going now over 40 years of hardcore.
On bridging the generational gaps within hardcore
It’s so important to me that we maintain this generational dialogue. I think that it’s so easy for old school heads to hang out with old school heads and for the young kids to hang out with the young kids, and I just want to be the person to say, “No, that’s bullshit, the entire scene will suffer.” No one is saying the young kids have to listen to the old heads in an instructive type of way, but to know your history, to know where things come from, to hear firsthand stories–that only enriches your experience. It’s also really important to amplify the fact that this is a community. Hardcore more than anything to me is the people who make it up, and we all become better community members when we speak to each other and understand each other and learn from each other. That means the old heads have a lot to learn from the young guys, and that’s also something I want to do. I want to open that dialogue.
On selling out
I don’t know ultimately whether or not there’s such a thing as “selling out,” at least in terms of signing to a major anymore. And the reason why I say that is because I think that the younger generation is more aware of the fact that their entry into punk was a major label entry. You probably got into punk because you liked Green Day or Fall Out Boy or My Chem, or whoever it was, and that’s awesome! We all need entry points. We all weren’t hanging out on Ave A in 1981, and that’s fine. My entry point was the Ramones. That was the first thing where I started to think, “What else is out there? What’s like the Ramones?” And somehow I got to Kraut, and somehow that took me to Agnostic Front. […] Everybody has different entry points, and I feel like to belittle each other’s entry points like you fucking grew up in the gutter and just randomly found a fucking Wide Awake 7″ in your backpack, like, I don’t wanna hear it [laughs].
On the first time Norman heard Thursday
The first time I heard Thursday… [New End Original] were on a skate video or a BMX video or something like that, so Jade Tree sent me copies, and one day I put it on my TV. And I’m walking around, doing stuff around the house, and this song comes on, and I had this visceral, negative reaction. It was so brutal, I literally felt energy coming out of my chest. I had to find the remote control to fast forward this song, I did not want to hear this song. The video gets to the end and I’m like, “I have to know what that song was.” And it was “Cross Out the Eyes.”
Fast forward to 20 years ago this October, I was living in San Francisco, and my friend Steve [Reddy] who runs Equal Vision Records was on tour with Coheed & Cambria, and they were opening for Thrice and Thursday at The Warfield. And so I went to go visit Steve, and I’m hanging out with Steve in the dressing rooms, and Steve Pedulla from Thursday comes up to me and says, “Do you remember me?” And I was like… “No.” He was like, “We used to be pen pals in the ’90s.” And I was like, “Oh, wait a second…,” and he was like, “Yeah, I’m from New Jersey…” He sent me a video with Embrace and Rites of Spring on it, and I remember I sent him a mixtape and probably some videos and 7″s and lots of things, we would trade stuff back and forth. I was like “I totally remember you!” because we had eventually met. And I was like, “Wait, what are you doing here?” and he was like, “I play in Thursday.” Immediately in my brain I’m embarrassed because I don’t think that I like Thursday, but he introduces me to the rest of the band, everyone’s really fucking cool and really nice and they’re all fans of Texas. And then I actually watched them play, and this was during War All the Time era, and they’re like a different band. They’re fucking firing on all cylinders, they were amazing. And then I went home and I remember that week finding “Cross Out the Eyes” to listen to it again and being like…. “What the fuck was it about that first time? I get it now!” Now it’s one of my top three favorite songs to play.
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Listen to the full episode for much more, and catch Thursday on tour soon, celebrating the 20th anniversary of War All The Time.
Read Anti-Matter here and sign up for a paid subscription if you’re able to help Norman out. He just put up an interview with Crystal Pak of Initiate today.
Also pick up a limited color vinyl repress of New End Original’s Thriller.
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